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Post by gaseousclay on Jan 5, 2015 7:35:02 GMT -6
There are definitely issues with the fit and finish of the Rockwell, it's taking a bit of a beating over on badger and blade and reddit, but my impression is overall positive, and I'll still be giving it a shot tomorrow, I'll let you know how it goes. FYI, Rockwell has been responsive to the issues being encountered, so we'll see how they end up handling it. What issues are there specifically? |
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Post by exophobe on Jan 6, 2015 1:16:12 GMT -6
What issues are there specifically? Largely fit and finish. First, the handle is perfect, "looks" like an ikon (don't have one so can't compare), and seems to weigh about half a pound. Having said that, I went and made the mistake of looking at the Ikon razors again, and darnit those are just beautiful razors. The top cap and lower plates seem to be cast (though the top cap seems to have gone through a couple post-cast processes -- the top is brushed, and I'm not sure how the threads were done, too tired to think about it), and the machine shop seems to have dropped the ball in a couple different ways. Many of the top caps (pictures on Badger and Blade) have slag on the underside, and based on reports this is causing a lot of warped blade and alignment issues that make it hard to trust the razor. Second, the bottom plates have some bowing on the cross-bars which makes the underside of the blade and shaving surface less consistent, too -- which indicates to me that the mold wasn't up to the volume, since the first off the line apparently showed none of the defects, and they seem to have gotten worse as the run progressed. The bottom plates also don't appear to have had many (if any) finishing processes applied. The parts are rough, the finish quality isn't up to the handle (or even the top-cap), and mine had some burrs seemingly from the casting process. Pictures I've seen are worse than mine, but one of the better parts (the 5/6 plate) has a piece of steel wedged in it so I can't install it on the razor. The good part is that Rockwell has been quick to respond, and has already started working through the issue with the machine shop. They have halted shipment of razors, and are working to resolve the issue, and get people with problem parts new top-caps and bottom plates. I expect this will probably put them about a month to six weeks behind, but I've seen other Kickstarter creators hide under less scrutiny, so it's nice to see them own up to it and not try to hide behind terms of use or anything like that. They responded to me fairly quickly regarding my issue, and have reacted about as quickly as I would expect anyone to be able to (first razors were in people's hands two days ago). I'm going to reserve judgment until I see how the final comes out. If they're able to make this right then I think it'll be an impressive razor. If nothing else, the EJ DE89 head fits on top of the handle, so I'll always have a super-heavy EJ as an option. |
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Post by Old26 on Jan 6, 2015 9:59:47 GMT -6
When I saw pics of some of the KS shavers, I noticed pieces (pre-prod) that looked bad, but always there was a blurb saying they'd be better in production.
This sort of thing is much more difficult to master than making jeans or shirts. I frankly want to save money, time and frustration with certain things. I got the Merkur as it's made extremely well. A razor, while simple, needs to be precise. I have baby skin and it's bad enough just to shave, let alone shave with an inferior tool.
I'm a big fan of small businesses taking on the big guys, but some of these guys who raise money are not nearly as experienced as they need to be to make certain products. I've done a lot of metal work in my life - including casting - and it's not a simple task to master. One thing that seems to hound a lot of KS campaigns is the followup and the QC. These guys raise money, start to build something, then it seems they sit back. When I was a kid, I almost never saw my gramps and my dad as they were working their asses off around the clock. Might not be the best way to live, but when it comes to work - esp with a new company - sleep and partying have to take a back seat. There is simply no substitute for hard work and caring about what you do. I fear the modern way is a lot more show than go...
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Post by exophobe on Jan 6, 2015 13:18:28 GMT -6
When I saw pics of some of the KS shavers, I noticed pieces (pre-prod) that looked bad, but always there was a blurb saying they'd be better in production. This sort of thing is much more difficult to master than making jeans or shirts. I frankly want to save money, time and frustration with certain things. I got the Merkur as it's made extremely well. A razor, while simple, needs to be precise. I have baby skin and it's bad enough just to shave, let alone shave with an inferior tool. I'm a big fan of small businesses taking on the big guys, but some of these guys who raise money are not nearly as experienced as they need to be to make certain products. I've done a lot of metal work in my life - including casting - and it's not a simple task to master. One thing that seems to hound a lot of KS campaigns is the followup and the QC. These guys raise money, start to build something, then it seems they sit back. When I was a kid, I almost never saw my gramps and my dad as they were working their asses off around the clock. Might not be the best way to live, but when it comes to work - esp with a new company - sleep and partying have to take a back seat. There is simply no substitute for hard work and caring about what you do. I fear the modern way is a lot more show than go... I'll definitely keep you guys apprised of how it goes. If they can get the rest of it up to the handle quality (which I know is the easiest part simply because it's all done on a (most certainly CNC) lathe -- it would have benefitted from some tumbling in fine media though), then it'll be a great piece of kit. If their machine shop is truly awful, they won't be getting out of this hole, and I can finish the handle off with an ikon head, and have an ikon at the same price as an ikon. I'm holding out hope, though, as it looks like mold degradation over time, which should be resolved on the machine shop's dime unless they told Rockwell they needed more copies of the mold than Rockwell was willing to pay for. I do worry about the quality of the shop, but I'm holding out faith they'll make it right, cause what the hell else am I gonna do?  |
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Post by gaseousclay on Jan 6, 2015 22:00:12 GMT -6
That's certainly a shame about the fit and finish. It actually seems like a promising venture. But then again, why reinvent the wheel? If I had known the Gillette fat handle tech was going to be my go to razor I wouldn't have spent money on all the other DE razors out there
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Post by exophobe on Jan 6, 2015 22:18:14 GMT -6
That's certainly a shame about the fit and finish. It actually seems like a promising venture. But then again, why reinvent the wheel? If I had known the Gillette fat handle tech was going to be my go to razor I wouldn't have spent money on all the other DE razors out there That's not really a question I can answer, but as one who backed it, I guess part of it is the novelty of it all, the possibility of being in on something new and better. They could have gone a safer route and just made a DE razor with slight design changes based on something that already exists, or maybe a fancy handle, and maybe had much less difficulty in getting it done correctly. I'm not going to knock them for trying, though, and what they've announced is that anyone who received problem parts will receive replacements once it's worked out with the machine shop. In other words, I still don't regret backing it, I'm looking forward to what the resolved parts look like (although I'm not expecting them to come out as impeccable as the finish on an Edwin Jagger, cause I've already seen what they're going for), and will be curious to see if they come up with a rev 2 where they step it up a notch. If they totally F this, well, then, I guess I'll start learning that novelty ain't all it's cracked up to be. If the new parts arrive and they exhibit the same problems, well, my tune will change. |
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Post by Griffin on Jan 7, 2015 6:36:39 GMT -6
This does not go well with your image dude. Do you have soft hands and feet aswell? (i do) |
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Post by Canucklehead on Jan 27, 2015 15:09:54 GMT -6
Just thought I'd bump this thread since I'm also a big fan of the DE razors. I've been shaving with them for just over a year now. My current set-up: Merkur 180 Long Handle Feather Blades (Yellow) Badger brush Proraso Sensitive soap Biotherm Homme Razor Burn Eliminator After Shave The Long Handle was a must. I've got some pretty big mitts and find most of the smaller ones just a little too tough to hang onto when when they get slippery. I'm constantly trying new stuff, but usually come back to this set-up. As with anything though, a lot of the fun is the journey.  |
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Post by wisdom on Jan 28, 2015 5:19:26 GMT -6
Hey, Canucklehead.. got any vintage razors in your shave den? I travel with my Merkur because I know I can replace it if something happens. I am more attached to my vintage Gillettes, though. |
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Post by Canucklehead on Jan 28, 2015 7:36:55 GMT -6
Hey, Canucklehead.. got any vintage razors in your shave den? I travel with my Merkur because I know I can replace it if something happens. I am more attached to my vintage Gillettes, though. Nah, nothing vintage. I actually started with a basic Edwin Jagger DE89. Not sure why really, I just liked the clean and simple look of it. After using it for a couple of months, I just started thinking "Geez, the smooth chromed handle isn't really practical. And some more length would really help." <---- insert joke here As I said though, I'm always looking to beef up my gear and set-up. I think like most other guys that love this stuff, I'll end up with a ridiculously impractical collection of razors, blades, soaps, etc. |
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Post by exophobe on Mar 21, 2015 0:20:26 GMT -6
That's not really a question I can answer, but as one who backed it, I guess part of it is the novelty of it all, the possibility of being in on something new and better. They could have gone a safer route and just made a DE razor with slight design changes based on something that already exists, or maybe a fancy handle, and maybe had much less difficulty in getting it done correctly. I'm not going to knock them for trying, though, and what they've announced is that anyone who received problem parts will receive replacements once it's worked out with the machine shop. In other words, I still don't regret backing it, I'm looking forward to what the resolved parts look like (although I'm not expecting them to come out as impeccable as the finish on an Edwin Jagger, cause I've already seen what they're going for), and will be curious to see if they come up with a rev 2 where they step it up a notch. If they totally F this, well, then, I guess I'll start learning that novelty ain't all it's cracked up to be. If the new parts arrive and they exhibit the same problems, well, my tune will change. Got new parts for the Rockwell yesterday, may try to take some pictures comparing the old parts with the new parts. No charge on the replacements. They've also sent an update saying that they fired the manufacturer, and they're still working on an improved cap for the whole thing, which they intend to ship out to all backers late summer, fall, something. These guys are doing a great job at making it right, and they largely delivered on time, so it's been an interesting kickstarter ride. Anyway, thought I'd give an update, in case I forget to provide you guys a full update until a later date. |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2015 16:51:58 GMT -6
I picked up some Cremo shaving cream from Target today and liked the results of my first shave. Cremo is good if you're on the go and can't be bothered with the DE shaving ritual of lathering up with a badger brush. I suspect this tube of Cremo will last awhile
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Post by exophobe on May 4, 2015 21:50:06 GMT -6
I picked up some Cremo shaving cream from Target today and liked the results of my first shave. Cremo is good if you're on the go and can't be bothered with the DE shaving ritual of lathering up with a badger brush. I suspect this tube of Cremo will last awhile Their face wash is great, target is a new thing for cremo, but that also happened with American crew when they were bought by umm... Whoever bought them (don't remember), so might need to look into whether they're still independent. |
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Post by bentin on Jun 10, 2015 13:55:10 GMT -6
Didn't want to derail the other thread, but I'm happy with my razor and blades (Merkur Futur and Personna Med Prep) but my ten plus year old AoS Silvertip brush is looking a little knackered. Any recommendations?
Mine's seemingly missing the middle bit of hair, so it looks like the heart is missing. It's also a little too soft, I suppose that's the silvertip bit. I think I'd like a little more aggressive finish. The Simpson Chubby on WestCoastShaving looks promising. As does the Rooney, but I'd just have images of Wayne when I use it, so that's right out.
What's good, but not too soft? I like it (kinda) rough.
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Post by jray on Jun 10, 2015 16:41:16 GMT -6
bentin - check fendrihan.com. That's where I buy my stuff. You can sort by review ranking and top sellers. Hope this helps!
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Post by Whiskey Mercenary on Jun 10, 2015 17:00:16 GMT -6
Didn't want to derail the other thread, but I'm happy with my razor and blades (Merkur Futur and Personna Med Prep) but my ten plus year old AoS Silvertip brush is looking a little knackered. Any recommendations? Mine's seemingly missing the middle bit of hair, so it looks like the heart is missing. It's also a little too soft, I suppose that's the silvertip bit. I think I'd like a little more aggressive finish. The Simpson Chubby on WestCoastShaving looks promising. As does the Rooney, but I'd just have images of Wayne when I use it, so that's right out. What's good, but not too soft? I like it (kinda) rough. Boom. Done. This will give you plenty of scrub without ripping your face off. www.westcoastshaving.com/Simpson-Colonel-X2L-Best-Badger-Shaving-Brush-X2L_p_390.html |
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Post by jray on Jun 10, 2015 17:07:20 GMT -6
Whiskey Mercenary and bentin - I have a brush but don't use it - I made my own pre-shave oil out of castor oil, olive oil and some essential oil, scrub some good quality cream on top and get a great shave with my DE razor. Do you find the brush makes a big difference?
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Post by Mowgli on Jun 10, 2015 17:21:47 GMT -6
I too just use Proraso preshave cream or some shaving oil and am happy with the shave. Granted I shave during or immediately after a shower and the hair is nice and soft.
It also cuts my shaving time to around 5 minutes
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Post by jray on Jun 10, 2015 19:49:43 GMT -6
@mowgli - me too. Always after a shower
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Post by whiskeyriver on Jun 10, 2015 20:33:45 GMT -6
I use Harry's service. WHEN I shave. Which is rarely. Usually just trim the ol' beard.
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Post by Whiskey Mercenary on Jun 11, 2015 7:33:16 GMT -6
Whiskey Mercenary and bentin - I have a brush but don't use it - I made my own pre-shave oil out of castor oil, olive oil and some essential oil, scrub some good quality cream on top and get a great shave with my DE razor. Do you find the brush makes a big difference? I've typically used soaps, so building a lather with a brush is necessary. With creams it's probably not as critical, but it would give you more lather than you're used to. With soaps you need something to basically grab some of the soap off the puck and apply it to the face. the Simpson I linked (and own) is great for this. It's not as pricey as some either, I'm a "bang-for-the-buck" kinda guy. |
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Post by Whiskey Mercenary on Jun 11, 2015 7:36:14 GMT -6
I too just use Proraso preshave cream or some shaving oil and am happy with the shave. Granted I shave during or immediately after a shower and the hair is nice and soft. It also cuts my shaving time to around 5 minutes I use C.O. Bigelow cream from time to time (repackaged Proraso). I lather it up with a brush. It likes a lot of water so I soak my brush in warm water for a minute, give it one shake and then add a dollop of cream to the middle. It starts out pretty soupy but this stuff is thirsty from my experience. I just face lather with it and find it very nice! |
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Post by Old26 on Jun 11, 2015 8:29:28 GMT -6
I too just use Proraso preshave cream or some shaving oil and am happy with the shave. Granted I shave during or immediately after a shower and the hair is nice and soft. It also cuts my shaving time to around 5 minutes I use C.O. Bigelow cream from time to time (repackaged Proraso). I lather it up with a brush. It likes a lot of water so I soak my brush in warm water for a minute, give it one shake and then add a dollop of cream to the middle. It starts out pretty soupy but this stuff is thirsty from my experience. I just face lather with it and find it very nice! My "beard" or facial hair is a joke. The only place it really grows is on my upper lip and chin. So shaving for me is more about the fun of the process - doing it like grandpa used to more than anything. I put hot water in the soap. Soak the brush in warm water. Take a shower (usually very warm to hot until summer). Then I dump the water from the soap dish and start mixing up the lather. Doesn't take me too long, but I still shave my whole face and neck. Then I rinse my face really well with cold water for a couple minutes. Feels great, and then I clean it all up and put away for a few days... |
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Post by bentin on Jun 11, 2015 8:55:12 GMT -6
Yeah, I've been using creams, TOBS, Truefitt & Hill and Trumper, but want to try Mike's soaps and used to use soaps more than creams. It's still nice to use the brush with creams, I get over a year out of a tub and it gives a thicker foam.
I've tried a bunch of shaving oils and find that my face prefers soap or cream only. I think this is as much to do with living in a humid environment as anything. If I'm in Santa Fe seeing my mom long enough, I notice that my Dallas routine does dry my face more, so an oil might work for me there.
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Post by gaseousclay on Jun 11, 2015 11:43:05 GMT -6
i've tried many soaps and creams, ranging from low end to high end. this includes brands like Colonel Conk, Mama Bear, Proraso, Godrej and Palmolive to Tabac and Mitchell's Wool Fat. For some reason the cheap creams and soaps have always worked better for my skin, especially the Godrej shave cream and Palmolive shave sticks. I now use Cremo which I bought from Target. It's cheap and provides excellent glide.
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