|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 14:34:25 GMT -6
|
|
|
|
Post by mkeview on Jan 24, 2016 14:47:35 GMT -6
I agree with devastitis if they were that concerned they'd produce somewhere else. But they still see themselves getting the better end of the bargain. It's a mutually beneficial exploitative relationship. No sympathy on my part. I buy based on fairness to the garment worker which tends to be in industrialized "first" world nations. Brands: IH, CF, Indigogene, red wing, Alden, Gustin (favorite chinos by a long shot), F&T, BR |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Jan 24, 2016 14:54:08 GMT -6
lol....I like your seller name. Sugewhite..lol |
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 15:05:28 GMT -6
lol....I like your seller name. Sugewhite..LOL That was given to me by a Black gal at Hughes Aircraft back in the 90's. I was a big white guy, and she called me the white Suge Knight LOL. Thought it would make a great eBay handle... |
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 15:10:52 GMT -6
I agree with devastitis if they were that concerned they'd produce somewhere else. But they still see themselves getting the better end of the bargain. It's a mutually beneficial exploitative relationship. No sympathy on my part. I buy based on fairness to the garment worker which tends to be in industrialized "first" world nations. Brands: IH, CF, Indigogene, red wing, Alden, Gustin (favorite chinos by a long shot), F&T, BR LOL, really? You and I make a deal to produce something in your factory. You feel it's OK to steal that on whatever level, produce it and then knock me out of business? So, the chinese company loses the contract with the American company and pays the workers 1/2 of what they made before. Everyone wins! |
|
|
|
Post by ickes on Jan 24, 2016 15:11:08 GMT -6
lol....I like your seller name. Sugewhite..LOL That was given to me by a Black gal at Hughes Aircraft back in the 90's. I was a big white guy, and she called me the white Suge Knight LOL. Thought it would make a great eBay handle... ha.....I like it. |
|
|
|
Post by mkeview on Jan 24, 2016 15:27:39 GMT -6
Like I said they are paying them to exploit their workers because they can't do it here. And then complain they exploit you? Again, no sympathy on my part.
And yes they could leave but they don't which is the answer to the question why they don't just leave?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 16:00:49 GMT -6
Interesting. Not being a watch guy, how many are there currently? My assumption is that nearly all watch companies buy their movements, and what is the price point of such a watch? Easy. There are no American automatic movements. Roland Murphy makes manual winders, but I'd imagine a bare movement would be $5k+. There are plenty of in house movements, for not that much, but they'd be Swiss or German and of course not in house for Shinola. Weiss uses ETA movements, which is a much better solution than Shinolas quartz junk. That's what I thought. It was actually a pointed question. I like Shinola for what it is. A USA company selling to a particular market. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 16:05:09 GMT -6
Boy, it's difficult to talk about China without bringing in politics.
We have done it to ourselves and it all started with nafta.
|
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 16:12:21 GMT -6
Boy, it's difficult to talk about China without bringing in politics. We have done it to ourselves and it all started with nafta. If by "we" you mean our lame ass government, then yes. But the smaller businesspeople aren't to blame for this. I'm talking about them, not big pharma or other mega-corp's that have sold us down the river... |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 16:22:02 GMT -6
Yes, the government. It has created a system that rewards the behavior.
|
|
|
|
Post by gaseousclay on Jan 24, 2016 16:24:35 GMT -6
Boy, it's difficult to talk about China without bringing in politics. We have done it to ourselves and it all started with nafta. Yep. The value of this community is that we're all trying to be educated consumers, and in doing so we're voting with our dollars. There are rare instances, like the LD fiasco, where 'US made' became a sales pitch rather than a genuine concern for the American worker, but LD was/is an outlier. I'd be a hypocrite if I said I only buy US made or Japanese made. My Chuck Taylor 70's were made in Vietnam and I know I have other articles of clothing that were made overseas, however, ive been trying to shift most of my spending towards companies that produce quality. my purchases are mostly dictated by cost as i'm sure it is with most of you. When a small company says, 'hey, buy our stuff because it's made in America,' I have to be able to evaluate that company and decide what makes them a better choice over hundreds of other companies making similar product using the same made in America sales pitch. The leather crafts are a perfect example. There are a lot of talented folks out there making leather goods, but what makes Company A better than Company B, both of which produce similar items for sale and have similar price points? It'll mostly come down to that company's individuality and uniqueness. |
|
|
|
Post by kylepa on Jan 24, 2016 17:45:36 GMT -6
Denim - Rogue Territory
Chinos - Gustin
Work Shirts - tough one. Freenote Cloth for non-denim, Lawless (say what you will but they made a truly amazing denim shirt) for denim.
Dress shirts - Taylor Stitch
T-shirts - Gustin
Boots - Red Wing. But I'd kill to get my hands on some Alden jumpers
Socks - Richer Poorer (but I need to try other brands, esp American trench)
Jackets - Filson tied with Freenote Cloth
Bags - Filson
I have no MiUSA knits but I'm eyeing American Trench and Homespun Knitwear
|
|
|
|
Post by devastitis on Jan 24, 2016 17:50:47 GMT -6
I don't understand the surprise and outrage. The US company using Chinese labor has taken production away from the United States and outsourced it in the name of profit. It's a cost of doing business with 3rd world countries and taking advantage of their cheap labor, and having a complete disregard for the people they use to make their products, and profiting off of them. If they run into corporate espionage and idea theft, that's, again, the cost of doing business in a foreign land. You really don't understand the difference between getting paid a lot of many by a US company to produce something and stealing IP from a company, producing it cheaply, and driving someone out of business? Really? I most sincerely doubt that. It's a risk you take when you deal with a foreign land. The foreign country protects their people as they should, even if it's outright theft. And why do companies still take that risk? Because regardless of the risk, it's still many times cheaper, and the reward is much higher profits. I spent 3 years in Korea working and all I heard from foreigners (being us) were complaints that the Koreans never tries to accommodate us or are never quick to protect us when it came to the law. Well, that's the way it should be. We're foreigners in their land trying to earn their hard earned money whichever way we can. We need to assimilate ourselves into their culture and not make demands. And being in their country, we'll risk getting robbed or swindled out of money. If we don't like those risks, we have the option to leave. Why should the country protect us foreigners at the expense of their own people? I don't understand the US pride or defend the US company angle when it's the same US companies that took jobs or potential jobs away from Americans and outsourced it in the name of higher profits. |
|
|
|
Post by devastitis on Jan 24, 2016 17:55:00 GMT -6
Denim - Rogue Territory Chinos - Gustin Work Shirts - tough one. Freenote Cloth for non-denim, Lawless (say what you will but they made a truly amazing denim shirt) for denim. Dress shirts - Taylor Stitch T-shirts - Gustin Boots - Red Wing. But I'd kill to get my hands on some Alden jumpersSocks - Richer Poorer (but I need to try other brands, esp American trench) Jackets - Filson tied with Freenote Cloth Bags - Filson I have no MiUSA knits but I'm eyeing American Trench and Homespun Knitwear I've been looking at the Alden jumpers, but now I've fallen in love with the Carmina jumpers. Carmina makes works of art. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 18:14:51 GMT -6
Just to squeeze in a word or 2 about China...
They are getting REALLY good at their counterfeiting and copying of goods, so much to the point that CEO's of companies like Nike CANNOT even tell the difference in the products! Corporate espionage is HUGE, and like I said, it's NOT just "copying goods"...
|
|
|
|
Post by devastitis on Jan 24, 2016 18:19:40 GMT -6
Just to squeeze in a word or 2 about China... They are getting REALLY good at their counterfeiting and copying of goods, so much to the point that CEO's of companies like Nike CANNOT even tell the difference in the products! Corporate espionage is HUGE, and like I said, it's NOT just "copying goods"... Yup, but it's not just China. It's also known in Korea that the Japanese visit South Korea often to buy designer knock off goods. The Korean knock offs of designer goods like LV are considered some of the best in the world. |
|
|
|
Post by exophobe on Jan 24, 2016 18:24:49 GMT -6
I don't understand the surprise and outrage. The US company using Chinese labor has taken production away from the United States and outsourced it in the name of profit. It's a cost of doing business with 3rd world countries and taking advantage of their cheap labor, and having a complete disregard for the people they use to make their products, and profiting off of them. If they run into corporate espionage and idea theft, that's, again, the cost of doing business in a foreign land. You really don't understand the difference between getting paid a lot of many by a US company to produce something and stealing IP from a company, producing it cheaply, and driving someone out of business? Really? I most sincerely doubt that. There is no IP in China, so they're not even stealing. Once you send something through the Chinese Internet, all bets are off. They've also been caught -- like the time where Autodesk found they had been hacked and everything that Autodesk customers were saving using their cloud shit was compromised, and the culprit was in Chinese IP space. |
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 18:24:57 GMT -6
Just to squeeze in a word or 2 about China... They are getting REALLY good at their counterfeiting and copying of goods, so much to the point that CEO's of companies like Nike CANNOT even tell the difference in the products! Corporate espionage is HUGE, and like I said, it's NOT just "copying goods"... Yup, but it's not just China. It's also known in Korea that the Japanese visit South Korea often to buy designer knock off goods. The Korean knock offs of designer goods like LV are considered some of the best in the world. Something to be proud of... |
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 18:27:26 GMT -6
Just to squeeze in a word or 2 about China... They are getting REALLY good at their counterfeiting and copying of goods, so much to the point that CEO's of companies like Nike CANNOT even tell the difference in the products! Corporate espionage is HUGE, and like I said, it's NOT just "copying goods"... I'm not even really talking about stuff like that. I am more concerned about important things like chips, and other tech, being stolen. You're taking money from someone to do a job, then stealing from them. I just choose to not support a culture like that. Whether it's technically legal or whatever in those hellholes isn't my concern, it's just a mess. |
|
|
|
Post by brentkuz on Jan 24, 2016 18:39:10 GMT -6
Shinola and Benrus both piss me off. Using american heritage as a selling point but the company barely makes a foot print in the USA. Waiting for someone to out there money where there mouth is for american made watches. Rgm is awesome but not widely produced at all.
|
|
|
|
Post by brentkuz on Jan 24, 2016 18:41:42 GMT -6
China makes amazing fraudulent goods. It's how the factories get contracts.
Factory A will have a year contract with Nike making Jordan's. After a year factory B undercuts factory
A and gets the contract. Factory A doesn't get a contract for this year but has all the knowledge to make jordan shoes. Factory A then makes knock off shoes and sells them!
|
|
|
|
Post by exophobe on Jan 24, 2016 18:45:57 GMT -6
Denim - Rogue Territory Chinos - Gustin Work Shirts - tough one. Freenote Cloth for non-denim, Lawless (say what you will but they made a truly amazing denim shirt) for denim. Dress shirts - Taylor Stitch T-shirts - Gustin Boots - Red Wing. But I'd kill to get my hands on some Alden jumpersSocks - Richer Poorer (but I need to try other brands, esp American trench) Jackets - Filson tied with Freenote Cloth Bags - Filson I have no MiUSA knits but I'm eyeing American Trench and Homespun Knitwear Doesn't this violate the hippocratic oath? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2016 18:54:48 GMT -6
China makes amazing fraudulent goods. It's how the factories get contracts. Factory A will have a year contract with Nike making Jordan's. After a year factory B undercuts factory A and gets the contract. Factory A doesn't get a contract for this year but has all the knowledge to make jordan shoes. Factory A then makes knock off shoes and sells them! But, not only that.... They actually have factories built as dedicated "fake Nike factories". They send people to work at the legit ones, take notes on machinery, materials and processes, and then go back to work at the fake factory.
Stealing and improving upon ideas is one thing... And, yes I'm totally against it..... But, copying and undercutting is another... Things like the shoes and purses actually get found being sold in LEGIT retailers! There was a debacle where people were ending up with fake Jordans and Nikes that they bought from places like Foot Locker.
|
|
|
|
Post by Old26 on Jan 24, 2016 19:13:56 GMT -6
China makes amazing fraudulent goods. It's how the factories get contracts. Factory A will have a year contract with Nike making Jordan's. After a year factory B undercuts factory A and gets the contract. Factory A doesn't get a contract for this year but has all the knowledge to make jordan shoes. Factory A then makes knock off shoes and sells them! But, not only that.... They actually have factories built as dedicated "fake Nike factories". They send people to work at the legit ones, take notes on machinery, materials and processes, and then go back to work at the fake factory.
Stealing and improving upon ideas is one thing... And, yes I'm totally against it..... But, copying and undercutting is another... Things like the shoes and purses actually get found being sold in LEGIT retailers! There was a debacle where people were ending up with fake Jordans and Nikes that they bought from places like Foot Locker.
That's why I like the Japanese - they love Americana, and they make the (some say re-started) work wear out of respect and love for it. They do a damn good job as well, and it's 100% legit to do what they do. If only those bastards would make some in my size! |
|
