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Post by matt on Dec 20, 2014 12:25:59 GMT -6
That is a tough crowd. Consider the source, do people say nice things on reddit? In my review, I consider the perspective, they are $200 boots. Comparatively, they are solid for a pair of $200 boots that I won't be living in. I have 3 other pairs in rotation, plus all my other shoe options. By the time these boots wear out, I'll have gotten my money's worth. Maybe I need to by a magnifying glass and over-analyze every stitch. Or, since it's 60 degrees in AZ in December, maybe I'll go ride my mountain bike instead  |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 13:58:39 GMT -6
That is a tough crowd. Consider the source, do people say nice things on reddit? In my review, I consider the perspective, they are $200 boots. Comparatively, they are solid for a pair of $200 boots that I won't be living in. I have 3 other pairs in rotation, plus all my other shoe options. By the time these boots wear out, I'll have gotten my money's worth. Maybe I need to by a magnifying glass and over-analyze every stitch. Or, since it's 60 degrees in AZ in December, maybe I'll go ride my mountain bike instead yeah, those Reddit members are not even owning the boots.... I gave out tough love but man, after reading those posts, I feel I need to go back and talk about my G's work shirt all over again ( just kidding). |
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Post by stinky on Dec 20, 2014 15:56:33 GMT -6
My primary criticism (and I have seen this in every pair in which pictures have been posted) is the loose grain. This pair has it in the ankle area.
It may be horween cxl, but it doesn't appear to be the "best cuts" of it.
Then again, $200 boots and all . . .
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Post by julian on Dec 21, 2014 6:46:02 GMT -6
While I realise those who are disappointed/annoyed are the ones most likely to make the most noise, Thursday's boots are taking a real mauling over at r/goodyearwelt/
Several threads, with people seemingly being reasonable about what appear to be genuine concerns and problems.
Certainly not the best start for a new brand.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 12:02:58 GMT -6
julian i saw two threads on r/goodyearwelt in which the issues were pretty egregious...those backers should absolutely be disappointed. fortunately the pair that matt received looked much better in terms of leather consistency and construction than those.
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Post by Old26 on Dec 21, 2014 12:24:10 GMT -6
julian i saw two threads on r/goodyearwelt in which the issues were pretty egregious...those backers should absolutely be disappointed. fortunately the pair that matt received looked much better in terms of leather consistency and construction than those. Which is why, at the end of the day, for another $100, you can get a killer, proven boot. I will experiment with some things, but not jackets of the leather variety and not boots/shoes. Those need to be left to the pros. |
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Post by usctroll on Dec 21, 2014 14:51:56 GMT -6
Which is why, at the end of the day, for another $100, you can get a killer, proven boot. I will experiment with some things, but not jackets of the leather variety and not boots/shoes. Those need to be left to the pros. Or wait until a company like J Crew, Bonobos, Brooks Bros, etc. puts out a 25-30% sale on everything and nab a really great pair of boots for < $50 more. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 16:23:31 GMT -6
The lesson learn is for all the KS brands especially on shoes, stay far far away from Reddit. Those comments on the two new threads are brutal.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2014 16:38:20 GMT -6
The lesson learn is for all the KS brands especially on shoes, stay far far away from Reddit. Those comments on the two new threads are brutal. i agree that some users will bash anything and everything that comes from KS (or isn't an established brand), but some of the reports and photos from people who have gotten boots were pretty bad and seemed deserving of some negative commentary. one user had nicks and dents in various spots of the boots, very loose grain, and leather creasing out of the box. i realize they're 'only $200' boots, but similar to Gustin, touted as premium quality that is equivalent to goods much more expensive. |
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Post by marauder on Dec 22, 2014 1:00:38 GMT -6
julian i saw two threads on r/goodyearwelt in which the issues were pretty egregious...those backers should absolutely be disappointed. fortunately the pair that matt received looked much better in terms of leather consistency and construction than those. Which is why, at the end of the day, for another $100, you can get a killer, proven boot. I will experiment with some things, but not jackets of the leather variety and not boots/shoes. Those need to be left to the pros. Do you have a specific boot / manufacturer in mind, Old26? |
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Post by usctroll on Dec 22, 2014 1:21:37 GMT -6
Do you have a specific boot / manufacturer in mind, Old26? I'd start with Red Wing or Wolverineand then decide if you need/want anything higher quality than that. I'm pretty much good at that quality level and I don't cry when they get scuffed up or make stupid posts on Reddit about extremely minor issues. |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 22, 2014 10:06:59 GMT -6
marauder - as usctroll said, Red Wing Wolverine are good. I also like USA Made Chippewas. I also have found some great deals over the years on RRL boots - they make some excellent boots. It all depends on the style you're looking for. I happen to like work boots and also western boots, so I have a lot of them and a good variety of brands.
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Post by matt on Dec 22, 2014 11:49:57 GMT -6
julian i saw two threads on r/goodyearwelt in which the issues were pretty egregious...those backers should absolutely be disappointed. fortunately the pair that matt received looked much better in terms of leather consistency and construction than those. Which is why, at the end of the day, for another $100, you can get a killer, proven boot. I will experiment with some things, but not jackets of the leather variety and not boots/shoes. Those need to be left to the pros. I've been fortunate with my KS backings. No issues with my boots, watch or denim. I'm not sure how communicative the TBC dudes are but hopefully they are trying to get ahead of the issues. |
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Post by marauder on Dec 22, 2014 15:05:40 GMT -6
Thanks usctroll and Old26. I was checking out Iron Rangers a little while ago, but I saw some very bad QC reviews so I'm not sure. Basically, I'm looking for a solid boot that I can walk for hours on end year round. It should be study, comfortable and built to last. I should be able to get the soles replaced if they wear out. Construction wise, I'd like the boot not to come apart at the joints between the soul and where the ball of the foot lands. Recently, at a local artisan show I met a show maker who told me that he makes them the same way they used to be made a century ago and way he joins the soul and the upper leather, it can not come apart at the seams. Is there a name for this technique? I think blundstones are made this way. I'm a bit of a boot noob  |
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Post by Old26 on Dec 22, 2014 15:08:46 GMT -6
I have dropped ~$1000 on western boots before. I have yet to get close to that for "work boots" but I've come close a few times with those in the $500-$700 range. At some point, I will try them, but I'd have to spend the usual amount of time needed to research something that high. There's lots of great boots out there, but you can never guarantee they won't have issues when worn/used. As long as they're well made, they should be repairable. I've got most of my western boots resoled and they come out looking like new.
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Post by usctroll on Dec 22, 2014 17:49:14 GMT -6
My guess is the RW complaints are from people trying to fight them above their weight class. Or buying seconds and not being able to live with the flaws. The point being, they're killer boots in the $200s if you buy them on sale.
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Post by noirkw on Dec 23, 2014 4:10:26 GMT -6
I believe the main issue with TBC is about the lack of honesty from the owner (Nolan). If you read from the start, apparently Nolan gave wrong information to the Reddit \goodyearwelt reviewer on the construction of the boot's insole and quality. After which a post came up on Rawrdenim showing the actual construction of the boot (cut in half showing its cross-section), which was not what Nolan (TBC) had told the reviewer (basically lying) which led to a huge uproar in the community.
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jan 1, 2015 18:19:03 GMT -6
For $200 I think they "LOOK" great. You do not get many boots that look great in this price point. They are usually to clunky or to dressy. I own the RW IR, I have a Wolverine 1000 Mile , I have owned the White's SD and many other brands but Alden's & Vibergs. I would prefer the Alden Indy but the TBC Diplomat fits the bill at this very moment where I cant spend $550 let alone $370 for even the Frye Walters (Alden Indy look as well) which I bet the TBC's are made better but $170 cheaper. I see nothing wrong with buying an occasional Hamburger instead of going out for Steak. I mean we have all purchased a WS from the Gap or JCrew but we also buy from Iron Heart so why not Thursday for the same reason. If you like em buy em and why do we have to cut a damn boot in half. Good lord do people really think that highly of themselves. I swear I laughed out loud when I saw that. I bet he jumped right back in the tool shed with all the other tools after that
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Post by exophobe on Jan 1, 2015 18:34:06 GMT -6
For $200 I think they "LOOK" great. You do not get many boots that look great in this price point. They are usually to clunky or to dressy. I own the RW IR, I have a Wolverine 1000 Mile , I have owned the White's SD and many other brands but Alden's & Vibergs. I would prefer the Alden Indy but the TBC Diplomat fits the bill at this very moment where I cant spend $550 let alone $370 for even the Frye Walters (Alden Indy look as well) which I bet the TBC's are made better but $170 cheaper. I see nothing wrong with buying an occasional Hamburger instead of going out for Steak. I mean we have all purchased a WS from the Gap or JCrew but we also buy from Iron Heart so why not Thursday for the same reason. If you like em buy em and why do we have to cut a damn boot in half. Good lord do people really think that highly of themselves. I swear I laughed out loud when I saw that. I bet he jumped right back in the tool shed with all the other tools after that From the review, it sounded like he did it after he was told that they didn't use stiffeners, and felt evidence to the contrary, and I would imagine he could feel the difference in the construction. The issue I take with it is that either A) they don't know how their boots are being made, or B) that they were intentionally misleading people as to the construction of their boots. I think people would be less harsh with them if they hadn't been caught in one of the above, and just admitted that sometimes $200 boots are just that, $200 boots. The Woolrich I picked up for $130 on sale (not one of the American made models) are pretty great, though I don't know what I'd find if I cut them in half. |
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Post by Dirty_Denim on Jan 2, 2015 12:40:09 GMT -6
I bought a pair of the Diplomat CXL Brown in a 11.5. I am looking forward to them even though I have expensive taste and I know Alden's, Viberg's, White's and many other brands are better quality wise. They will get the same appreciation just like the other items I own that look like my style. I mean my wife is beautiful but she isn't Victoria's Secret beautiful so should I not have married her because there are prettier woman out there. I feel like people compare things that shouldn't be compared. Don't sit in a Diner and complain that the steak isn't the same as Uncle Jacks Steakhouse or that the Motel you paid $49.99 doesn't have 5 Star service. People just compare the wrong things. Take stuff for what they are and enjoy them for what they are...alternatives to more expensive things that maybe you can't afford at the moment. If you can afford a pair of $550 Aldens then why are you messing with a $200 alternative.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 12:57:28 GMT -6
I bought a pair of the Diplomat CXL Brown in a 11.5. I am looking forward to them even though I have expensive taste and I know Alden's, Viberg's, White's and many other brands are better quality wise. They will get the same appreciation just like the other items I own that look like my style. I mean my wife is beautiful but she isn't Victoria's Secret beautiful so should I not have married her because there are prettier woman out there. I feel like people compare things that shouldn't be compared. Don't sit in a Diner and complain that the steak isn't the same as Uncle Jacks Steakhouse or that the Motel you paid $49.99 doesn't have 5 Star service. People just compare the wrong things. Take stuff for what they are and enjoy them for what they are...alternatives to more expensive things that maybe you can't afford at the moment. If you can afford a pair of $550 Aldens then why are you messing with a $200 alternative. Please provide us a review after you get yours. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 13:00:20 GMT -6
I bought a pair of the Diplomat CXL Brown in a 11.5. I am looking forward to them even though I have expensive taste and I know Alden's, Viberg's, White's and many other brands are better quality wise. They will get the same appreciation just like the other items I own that look like my style. I mean my wife is beautiful but she isn't Victoria's Secret beautiful so should I not have married her because there are prettier woman out there. I feel like people compare things that shouldn't be compared. Don't sit in a Diner and complain that the steak isn't the same as Uncle Jacks Steakhouse or that the Motel you paid $49.99 doesn't have 5 Star service. People just compare the wrong things. Take stuff for what they are and enjoy them for what they are...alternatives to more expensive things that maybe you can't afford at the moment. If you can afford a pair of $550 Aldens then why are you messing with a $200 alternative. i agree with this point only if the customer is taking it upon themselves to make that comparison. the problem (imo) comes when the company themselves make the claim to be as good as those other products. gustin does it "This is the same style and quality that was sold in boutiques all over the country for $205+." and Thursday does it "Our boots compete toe-to-toe with luxury brands 2-5x more expensive." they aren't simply saying that they're offering a great product for their price point...they're deliberately comparing themselves to products at a completely different level. in the case of the thursday reviews...the fact that the founders were either misrepresenting their products or had no knowledge/control of the construction details is legitimately troublesome. consumers should not have to be accepting of product that are inherently different than advertised just because those products are offered at a good price...you should still be completely within your rights to expect what you were being told you'd receive. |
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Post by noirkw on Jan 2, 2015 13:06:33 GMT -6
I bought a pair of the Diplomat CXL Brown in a 11.5. I am looking forward to them even though I have expensive taste and I know Alden's, Viberg's, White's and many other brands are better quality wise. They will get the same appreciation just like the other items I own that look like my style. I mean my wife is beautiful but she isn't Victoria's Secret beautiful so should I not have married her because there are prettier woman out there. I feel like people compare things that shouldn't be compared. Don't sit in a Diner and complain that the steak isn't the same as Uncle Jacks Steakhouse or that the Motel you paid $49.99 doesn't have 5 Star service. People just compare the wrong things. Take stuff for what they are and enjoy them for what they are...alternatives to more expensive things that maybe you can't afford at the moment. If you can afford a pair of $550 Aldens then why are you messing with a $200 alternative. i agree with this point only if the customer is taking it upon themselves to make that comparison. the problem (imo) comes when the company themselves make the claim to be as good as those other products. gustin does it "This is the same style and quality that was sold in boutiques all over the country for $205+." and Thursday does it "Our boots compete toe-to-toe with luxury brands 2-5x more expensive." they aren't simply saying that they're offering a great product for their price point...they're deliberately comparing themselves to products at a completely different level. in the case of the thursday reviews...the fact that the founders were either misrepresenting their products, or had no knowledge/control of the construction details is legitimately troublesome. consumers should not have to accepting of product that are inherently different than advertised just because those products are offered at a good price...you should still be completely within your rights to expect what you were being told you'd receive. I believe David nailed it right there. I've got no experience with TBC, but I've read from all the reviews on Reddit and the one on Rawrdenim is that they were either lying about their product construction (they informed the reddit reviewer that the insole was pure leather, which according to the rawrdenim review, was not) or they did not know much about their own construction of the boot. Still though, at the KS price of 150 it's still a solid boot. But for 200, I'd rather get a pair of IRs ($198 Amazon BF lightning deal) or Chippewas Service Boot (159.99 occassionally on Amazon) |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2015 15:21:50 GMT -6
i want to clarify that i'm not indicating that the tbc boots aren't a good value...and will assume that they are worth the asking price.
but...i don't think the issues pointed out should be disregarded or chalked up to 'what do you expect for $200?'
i think everyone should expect to receive what was presented to them at the level of quality claimed by the seller. i think the seller has a responsibility to honestly assess and present the construction and value of their product and shouldn't be surprised if customers hold them to that.
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Post by gaseousclay on Jan 2, 2015 18:43:56 GMT -6
i want to clarify that i'm not indicating that the tbc boots aren't a good value...and will assume that they are worth the asking price. but...i don't think the issues pointed out should be disregarded or chalked up to 'what do you expect for $200?' i think everyone should expect to receive what was presented to them at the level of quality claimed by the seller. i think the seller has a responsibility to honestly assess and present the construction and value of their product and shouldn't be surprised if customers hold them to that. Yep. Transparency is a big deal, especially if you're going to ask customers to fund your KS campaign. Heck, J Crew's in house brand of shoes are GYW but it seems like no one actually pays full price for their stuff. Likewise, if TBC is making claims about the quality of their boots then they need to back those claims up to reassure backers. In my view they knowingly played to everyone's love of Alden's style of boots and it appears to be backfiring. |
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