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Post by Old26 on Oct 7, 2014 12:22:14 GMT -6
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen a picture of a Lawless product yet that looked quality. They all end up awkwardly shaped and those are just the ones publicly posted. Show an example please...no bogus claims about anyone or thing without citations! |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 12:23:13 GMT -6
I agree with a point that I believe Wisdom touched on. Gustin, to me, seem more like a fabric broker at this point. They are simply more interested in finding interesting fabrics and selling them to us, while a third party sub sews that fabric in to our desired fit. Lawless (Roman) on the other hand, are craftsmen. They find the fabric, they ask us what we would like to do with that fabric, they ask us what details we want put in to that fabric, and then Lawless themselves actually craft that material in to a product that they are proud of. I honestly believe that Roman has the skill and capability to sew up some material in to a pair of jeans, shirt, etc....and loves doing it as he is a craftsman who likes to work with his hands. I am basing this solely on the videos I have seen where he is operating a sewing machine so to this point it is somewhat speculation, but this is just the overall feeling and impression I get. When you are dealing with a craftsman, as opposed to a broker, the craftsman will tend to have much more pride in the end result that is the product....the craftsman will tend to have more pride in his/her work because they are building the product for you themselves...it is an art to them....and they want you to be happy with the product they have created for you as they have put their blood, sweet, and tears in to creating that product. When you have a business owner/operator who is also a hands on craftsman of his particular trade....well then you get the best of both worlds IMO. I don't mean to get too sappy with all this craftsman talk, but it is 100% the truth. And I'm not trying to talk Lawless up too much without receiving a product yet (hopefully soon  , but everything that I have seen and experienced so far in regards to Lawless/Roman and how he deals with his customers and runs his business, leads me to believe that he is a craftsman who has pride in his work. Agree with you, Ickes. I said that in my earlier post here that Gustin is a marketer who know how to sell you a pair of jeans. Just read those "marketing" description on each of their products, The way on how they used Kickstarter and then use the same scarcity model to target a specific group of buyers (us) and lastly to have us to hype up their products on it's community should be a Harvard Business Review case study. |
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Post by stinky on Oct 7, 2014 12:26:27 GMT -6
...I don't mean to get too sappy with all this craftsman talk, but it is 100% the truth. And I'm not trying to talk Lawless up too much without receiving a product yet (hopefully soon , but everything that I have seen and experienced so far in regards to Lawless/Roman and how he deals with his customers and runs his business, leads me to believe that he is a craftsman who has pride in his work. I feel the same. There is a disconnect with buying Gustin that I don't feel with LD/Roman. We'll see how it pans out - it's a lofty goal. But I will wager many here are in the same boat. I think Gustin hurt themselves by not fixing certain issues and not coming online to talk about them lately. Just my 2¢ I was criticized quite a bit for saying this a while back on the G forum. People respect leaders who get in front of issues and address them honestly. Sometimes you have to come out from behind the spreadsheets and the metrics and fix things with your gut, your voice, and your passion. When my clients and customers tell me something is screwed up, it doesn't always work to point to a spreadsheet and tell them they are wrong. I have to tell them a) that I understand their issue, b) am very concerned about solving it, and c) heads will roll if it doesn't get fixed. |
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Post by Old26 on Oct 7, 2014 12:30:39 GMT -6
I feel the same. There is a disconnect with buying Gustin that I don't feel with LD/Roman. We'll see how it pans out - it's a lofty goal. But I will wager many here are in the same boat. I think Gustin hurt themselves by not fixing certain issues and not coming online to talk about them lately. Just my 2¢ I was criticized quite a bit for saying this a while back on the G forum. People respect leaders who get in front of issues and address them honestly. Sometimes you have to come out from behind the spreadsheets and the metrics and fix things with your gut, your voice, and your passion. When my clients and customers tell me something is screwed up, it doesn't always work to point to a spreadsheet and tell them they are wrong. I have to tell them a) that I understand their issue, b) am very concerned about solving it, and c) heads will roll if it doesn't get fixed. For me, the Gustin forum was less good than using emails. Up to a point. I think we were all trying to respect their space - which they provide - to be useful and kind. It's a balance that may not work, but seems Gustin reads posts and lately have decided not to participate. Maybe they wanted to purge the joint of us old timers to get new blood in. Seems like it's working - at the very least, it's a golden pop for LD and others to grab a bunch of money-spending enthusiasts here. Time will tell... |
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Post by colerussell on Oct 7, 2014 12:31:36 GMT -6
For me, Gustin is pricing themselves out of the market. I got in for quality selvedge at extremely good prices. The material is still excellent, but the construction issues and general silence on Gustin's part don't justify the prices. I couldn't agree more, brother. These are my sentiments exactly. And into this current scene, you have Lawless rush in. Although the quality of the denim is not yet in our hands, the anticipation is. And to add to the equation, you also have better price points and a leader (Roman) who has his foot into the community and is honestly interacting with all of us. It's tough to not by hyped about Lawless when you step back and look at this concoction. |
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Post by Mattbert on Oct 7, 2014 12:39:49 GMT -6
How many of us started with Gustin as our first Raw Denim??? *raises hand I'm 3-for-5 on jeans that have come to me direct from Gustin. One pair never made it to me because it fell afoul of the 1% QC cops, and another pair shouldn't have made it to me because it was a size 37 instead of the size 36 that I ordered. The other three came in comfortably within tolerances. Considering I have four more jeans in the pipeline at Gustin, I suppose that must mean I find .600 to be an acceptable batting average. I guess at this point I now have plenty of cool denim that fits me well (7 pairs including the Gs I've purchased second-hand, hello #firstworldproblems) so it's not like I'm struggling for choice if Gustin drops the ball on an order of mine. They're constantly posting up pretty cool stuff, so I'm willing to keep on rolling the dice with them in the knowledge that eventually I will end up with something cool that fits well, even if it takes a little time and the mild disappointment and inconvenience of returning a faulty pair or two to get there. It's not for everyone, certainly. But that's okay. |
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Post by Mattbert on Oct 7, 2014 12:46:29 GMT -6
For me, the Gustin forum was less good than using emails. Up to a point. I think we were all trying to respect their space - which they provide - to be useful and kind. It's a balance that may not work, but seems Gustin reads posts and lately have decided not to participate. Maybe they wanted to purge the joint of us old timers to get new blood in. Seems like it's working - at the very least, it's a golden pop for LD and others to grab a bunch of money-spending enthusiasts here. Time will tell... Funny thing is, if this place didn't exist we'd all be Mr Randalling the bejeezus out of a whole bunch of comments on the Gustin community page today. There have been several comments there in the last couple hours that are way "worse" than the one that inadvertently led to the genesis of this forum. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 12:49:07 GMT -6
I was criticized quite a bit for saying this a while back on the G forum. People respect leaders who get in front of issues and address them honestly. Sometimes you have to come out from behind the spreadsheets and the metrics and fix things with your gut, your voice, and your passion. When my clients and customers tell me something is screwed up, it doesn't always work to point to a spreadsheet and tell them they are wrong. I have to tell them a) that I understand their issue, b) am very concerned about solving it, and c) heads will roll if it doesn't get fixed. For me, the Gustin forum was less good than using emails. Up to a point. I think we were all trying to respect their space - which they provide - to be useful and kind. It's a balance that may not work, but seems Gustin reads posts and lately have decided not to participate. Maybe they wanted to purge the joint of us old timers to get new blood in. Seems like it's working - at the very least, it's a golden pop for LD and others to grab a bunch of money-spending enthusiasts here. Time will tell... I will not be surprised the community will go away if it is hurting Gustin sales. I don't think it is helping them much anymore. |
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Post by wisdom on Oct 7, 2014 12:55:49 GMT -6
For me, Gustin is pricing themselves out of the market. I got in for quality selvedge at extremely good prices. The material is still excellent, but the construction issues and general silence on Gustin's part don't justify the prices. I couldn't agree more, brother. These are my sentiments exactly. And into this current scene, you have Lawless rush in. Although the quality of the denim is not yet in our hands, the anticipation is. And to add to the equation, you also have better price points and a leader (Roman) who has his foot into the community and is honestly interacting with all of us. It's tough to not by hyped about Lawless when you step back and look at this concoction. You can't fake passion.. in my opinion, Roman does what he does, not because he's out to make a buck.. that's just a side-effect of him doing what he loves. Bringing this back to Gustin, though, what do you guys feel they need to do to work their way back to the Gustin we knew and loved (or knew and loved more)? Better prices and tighter quality are givens.. but are those two gripes the main reasons for the undeniable undercurrent of negativity on Gustin these days? They're still a great company with an enviable business model and world-class supply chain, and I still find myself wanting to throw money (but not that much, Gustin) at them, but am eager for a worthy competitor to step to the plate. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 13:03:46 GMT -6
You can't fake passion.. in my opinion, Roman does what he does, not because he's out to make a buck.. that's just a side-effect of him doing what he loves. Bringing this back to Gustin, though, what do you guys feel they need to do to work their way back to the Gustin we knew and loved (or knew and loved more)? Better prices and tighter quality are givens.. but are those two gripes the main reasons for the undeniable undercurrent of negativity on Gustin these days? They're still a great company with an enviable business model and world-class supply chain, and I still find myself wanting to throw money (but not that much, Gustin) at them, but am eager for a worthy competitor to step to the plate. agree with the remarks re: passion. that sort of passion breeds the sort of frenetic energy that drives these discussions and many of the discussions that were more prevalent in ye olde days on the gustin forums. i'm still a G fan, and have been lucky to get everything to spec. i know their slim cut fits me well and check their site for new drops (hoping the cpo is something i'll want to back). i probably won't order many more jeans as i'm at enough pairs for now. i also won't go to that forum promoting other brands as it doesn't sit so well with me. they need to address their quality/consistency issues, and figure out what price point they're comfortable with according to their intended market...but poaching customers from their site isn't for me. |
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Post by matt on Oct 7, 2014 13:10:30 GMT -6
i think he's saying he doesn't understand people who have 30 pairs...which never allows you to really get proper wear on any of them. Yes, thanks! I don't know what happened to my typing there LOL!  I think it's more what happened to my eyesight.  |
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Post by jray on Oct 7, 2014 13:15:34 GMT -6
this is going to sound sappy so I apologize in advance. Gustin was my first foray into raw denim after hearing about it in GQ or esquire but I've always liked denim. My girlfriend in university's father was in the business - he distributed Edwin jeans for North America. Now to my point - I still love gustin but think I have enough pairs of jeans for now and they're getting too expensive for me. The kicker about Gustin for me was raw denim at a third of the price of the others because I like getting a deal as value shopper.
The COMMUNITY/FORUM/You Guys, on Gustin has always been the difference for me. I've enjoyed the banter, humor, education, suggestions and sometimes convincing me to try certain denims based on all of your feedback. If that goes away, I'll miss it and I do believe it will impact G's business model.
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Post by matt on Oct 7, 2014 13:17:37 GMT -6
A couple of thoughts - first (yep, I'm being a Mr. Randall) but we should probably move a chunk of this thread to the general thread here. We're venturing into Lawless territory within the Gustin thread. |
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Post by jray on Oct 7, 2014 13:19:00 GMT -6
Why does it say Old 26 made me delete this?
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Post by matt on Oct 7, 2014 13:23:09 GMT -6
Why does it say Old 26 made me delete this? LOL...when this thread started, Old26 was commenting on his dislike for signatures that list what denims we had, etc. It's a friendly rib at him |
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Post by Griffin on Oct 7, 2014 13:26:13 GMT -6
I do love what Gustin is - a place that drops different kinds of selvedge that I can order. When I first started I almost coulsnt believe it, talk about a boy in a candy shop. I still love to see all the different denims and feel they have a good ability to find just the right fabric that awakens my "must-have"-feeling. This goes for both jeans and shirts. There are only a select few that I would not want in my wardrobe.
However, I have gotten so many problems with almost all my clothes that I now have to think about how to move forward. There is always something not 100% with every purchase. A normal pair of of 501 or nudies are not as cool fabric or even selvadge, but they do not have theese flaws. Im talking about threads sticking out, bad crotch sewing that is somewhat a mess. Labels upsidedown, skew sewing. Buttons off centre and so on and so forth. In the beginning I just swwallowed alot of it bc they are still cheaper then stuff where I live, and remember I have to pay $20 in shipping and almost always $60 in VAT & charges on every purchase, even the shirts.
The pants I have to hem and since I chose different colors, I have to buy different color strong thread and it isnt cheap.
The shirts I am between a L and XL so neithr really fits me perfect so I have a coupple of each.
I dont know what is in the future, but at this point I will not pay $175 no matter what fabric bc even if I actually get the item and its in my size, there will be something else. My Okas are the only ones that looks perfect, but you never know. My loomies started showing a little bit open stitch holes after 1 year of wear.
I love the Gustin consept, I think they are extremely good at dropping the right stuff. I also think they are very good at customer service through mail.
But.
I have so little time, I dont even have time for my family and basically Im getting tired of never just getting something that is perfect and that I can just wear. As I said, I have nudies, levis, IronHeart and they are all constructed perfect. There is nothing bad with any of them. If looking at close, they are a mile ahead of G. But they are behind in terms of fabric. I might have had bad luck bc I dont see people say this, but if I wear gustin for 2 weeks and then puts on my IronHearts, they are in a different league. They feel more solid, and its not just the weight. I know the patch wont bleed at wash, I know the seems will hold and so on. I feel Gustin is fragile, and its still a chance-taking if I get happy, even after a year.
I hope they tune theese problems bc then they are a strong contender IMHO, to me, they still are far ahead of the game in terms of finding just the right tone in boths pants and shirts.
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Post by repiv on Oct 7, 2014 13:26:56 GMT -6
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen a picture of a Lawless product yet that looked quality. They all end up awkwardly shaped and those are just the ones publicly posted. Show an example please...no bogus claims about anyone or thing without citations! The updated stuff on the website does look better - the website was down when I originally found them and I was basing everything off instagram. I guess the only thing bad I can say is the denim jackets look all out of shape. I'm still in too-good-to-be-true and prove me wrong mode. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 13:29:16 GMT -6
Show an example please...no bogus claims about anyone or thing without citations! The updated stuff on the website does look better - the website was down when I originally found them and I was basing everything off instagram. I guess the only thing bad I can say is the denim jackets look all out of shape. I'm still in too-good-to-be-true and prove me wrong mode. I think Roman is taking the inputs from this forum to re-design some of his products, including fits. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 7, 2014 13:46:34 GMT -6
Show an example please...no bogus claims about anyone or thing without citations! The updated stuff on the website does look better - the website was down when I originally found them and I was basing everything off instagram. I guess the only thing bad I can say is the denim jackets look all out of shape. I'm still in too-good-to-be-true and prove me wrong mode. to me the denim trucker shots look a bit off mostly due to how they're being modeled. i don't think the shape/fit is being helped in the main photo by being unbuttoned half way and by the way the model is standing (sort of reclined/arched back...a bit of that underwear model stance to accentuate abs)...with the stiff denim that's not broken in i think this is making the jacket sit strangely on the shoulders and appear too large in the chest. i could be wrong, but i'm guessing the fit is fine and would appear as such once the fabric is broken in a bit (or if the model stood up straight and maybe buttoned the next button). |
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Post by colerussell on Oct 7, 2014 13:54:36 GMT -6
The updated stuff on the website does look better - the website was down when I originally found them and I was basing everything off instagram. I guess the only thing bad I can say is the denim jackets look all out of shape. I'm still in too-good-to-be-true and prove me wrong mode. to me the denim trucker shots look a bit off mostly due to how they're being modeled. i don't think the shape/fit is being helped in the main photo by being unbuttoned half way and by the way the model is standing (sort of reclined/arched back...a bit of that underwear model stance to accentuate abs)...with the stiff denim that's not broken in i think this is making the jacket sit strangely on the shoulders and appear too large in the chest. i could be wrong, but i'm guessing the fit is fine and would appear as such once the fabric is broken in a bit (or if the model stood up straight and maybe buttoned the next button). I'm hoping your assessment is a bull's-eye. I'm awaiting a denim jacket from Lawless, and look forward to reviewing it once I receive it. I've always believed that if a coat, shirt, or blazer doesn't fit well on the shoulders, it will look poor no matter how the rest of the item fits! |
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Post by Old26 on Oct 7, 2014 14:15:20 GMT -6
Why does it say Old 26 made me delete this? LOL...when this thread started, Old26 was commenting on his dislike for signatures that list what denims we had, etc. It's a friendly rib at him Don't stop. I like sarcasm and ribs. |
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Post by repiv on Oct 7, 2014 14:17:58 GMT -6
I don't know why this Zimbabwe 18 is calling my name. Probably because I would never buy it otherwise and I have the exact amount of store credit.
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Post by Old26 on Oct 7, 2014 14:19:53 GMT -6
Show an example please...no bogus claims about anyone or thing without citations! The updated stuff on the website does look better - the website was down when I originally found them and I was basing everything off instagram. I guess the only thing bad I can say is the denim jackets look all out of shape. I'm still in too-good-to-be-true and prove me wrong mode. I think most are to a point. There's lots of excitement, but of course we're waiting on the products to judge in person. That's only fair to everyone... |
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Post by stinky on Oct 7, 2014 14:57:01 GMT -6
I love the Gustin consept, I think they are extremely good at dropping the right stuff. I also think they are very good at customer service through mail. I do think they have a problem with timing the drops, though. For example, that CPO should have been posted in July/August, because it's becoming time to wear that right now. They have to be one season ahead all the time. |
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Post by bugula on Oct 7, 2014 15:12:50 GMT -6
Slate Crimson Plaid added to the store...
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, but everything that I have seen and experienced so far in regards to Lawless/Roman and how he deals with his customers and runs his business, leads me to believe that he is a craftsman who has pride in his work. 
