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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 7:05:01 GMT -6
Yeah. I know this does not make it any easier but I already watched Carhartt and Red Wing do the same. It sucks. And factories having the volume capacity and bodies available to do MiUSA sewing seems to be a big issue. The middle ground does seem to be Portugal. And yeah, I wish TS was paying me for this but they are not. ANd I SHOULD send the founders an email because I am getting bored with bringing up some of these things with their CS rep on SF. I think my new hobby should really be yelling at clouds. I think this is the crux of the issue, not enough skilled labor in the US to do the work. It seems to me that there are probably only a small handful of sew shops in the US that cater to clothing companies and they're either based in Los Angeles or New York. I think LC King, aka, Pointer Brand, also makes their stuff domestically but I could be wrong. This is probably why you're seeing smaller scale companies like Vermylea Pelle do so well. They handle all production in-house but everything is made to order. But you're also paying a premium for their goods. Not necessarily a bad thing but at least they seem to have a handle on their capabilities. |
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Post by ncbluegrass on May 4, 2017 7:20:47 GMT -6
Maybe I've mentioned this, but they threw a Made in Portugal on one of my shirts that was supposed to be Made in California. I think they did it on purpose. Doesn't help that it's probably my best fitting and best made TS shirt. It's not lost on me that we might be the ones doing it wrong. one of my Jacks has a MiPortugal tag on the neck and a MiCA tag on the inside seam by the shirt tail. |
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New Drops
May 4, 2017 8:10:56 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bentin on May 4, 2017 8:10:56 GMT -6
Maybe I've mentioned this, but they threw a Made in Portugal on one of my shirts that was supposed to be Made in California. I think they did it on purpose. Doesn't help that it's probably my best fitting and best made TS shirt. It's not lost on me that we might be the ones doing it wrong. one of my Jacks has a MiPortugal tag on the neck and a MiCA tag on the inside seam by the shirt tail. Oh lord. I'd probably just burn it to be safe. Now I've got to check all of my TS stuff for similar issues. |
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Post by bentin on May 4, 2017 8:12:19 GMT -6
Yeah. I know this does not make it any easier but I already watched Carhartt and Red Wing do the same. It sucks. And factories having the volume capacity and bodies available to do MiUSA sewing seems to be a big issue. The middle ground does seem to be Portugal. And yeah, I wish TS was paying me for this but they are not. ANd I SHOULD send the founders an email because I am getting bored with bringing up some of these things with their CS rep on SF. I think my new hobby should really be yelling at clouds. I think this is the crux of the issue, not enough skilled labor in the US to do the work. It seems to me that there are probably only a small handful of sew shops in the US that cater to clothing companies and they're either based in Los Angeles or New York. I think LC King, aka, Pointer Brand, also makes their stuff domestically but I could be wrong. This is probably why you're seeing smaller scale companies like Vermylea Pelle do so well. They handle all production in-house but everything is made to order. But you're also paying a premium for their goods. Not necessarily a bad thing but at least they seem to have a handle on their capabilities. Except VP is actually cheaper than full Filson retail and uses much better materials. Interesting to see how often Rancourt puts his stuff on sale too. |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 8:37:34 GMT -6
Doesn't Filson source their waxed canvas from overseas? Either way, I was merely pointing out that VP is basically the owner and maybe a few hired hands that make everything. His stuff isn't mass produced but done on an order to order basis, so QC is likely very high in addition to the craftsmanship and materials.
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New Drops
May 4, 2017 8:51:02 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bentin on May 4, 2017 8:51:02 GMT -6
Agreed. Small craftsmen are having an impact. I also like the guy at One Star Leather. Nice belts for the money. There are lots of small, quality purveyors, but I think what we're lacking is the large capacity sew shops that used to be prevelant.
Much like an article I saw yesterday about a shortage of auto mechanics, this seems like the real hurdle of bringing jobs back to America. We're all a bunch of over educated service industry folks now, not skilled physical laborers. Like Carroll Shelby resorting to building his last cars in a NV prison, maybe we just need to look at all of our available labor pools.
Who's pay extra for a shirt sewn by OJ?
I'd also like to point out that I categorically avoid Gustin's MiUSA shirts because they're poorly cut and poorly made. So that's not a win for MiUSA. TS probably suffers from more returns when they try to source US sewers to make a patterned shirt. RgT is currently peddling a $255 shirt that is lacking gussets and has suspect alignment. I don't fault TS for using Portugal for patterned shirts, but I'm still annoyed that they don't leave their solid shirts and those named California in the hands of American sewers.
And there's just no excuse for China. If you can't strike a deal with Westcomb, RAB or Mission, just don't make the jacket.
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 9:09:08 GMT -6
Much like an article I saw yesterday about a shortage of auto mechanics, this seems like the real hurdle of bringing jobs back to America. We're all a bunch of over educated service industry folks now, not skilled physical laborers. Like Carroll Shelby resorting to building his last cars in a NV prison, maybe we just need to look at all of our available labor pools. i've read similar articles about the blue collar industry. Jobs like plumbing or even truck drivers are experiencing labor shortages. I'm actually considering obtaining a commercial drivers license because those guys make really good money. If you have a cdl and are an owner/operator you can earn upwards of $250k per year. Granted, the cost of having your own big rig is probably through the roof and some of these drivers are transporting hazardous materials which warrant the high pay. But if you're a route driver you can easily make a starting salary of $50k to $75k per year. My 4 yr degree is worthless |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 9:34:26 GMT -6
RgT is currently peddling a $255 shirt that is lacking gussets and has suspect alignment. I know we're flogging a dead horse here but I wonder if the misaligned placket on RgT's new work shirt was intentional? I blame this forum for making me a bit OCD, but I honestly wonder how this shirt made it out of development. Even more perplexing, how is it that consumers would even find it exceptable when you consider the cost? Is it blind loyalty to the brand or do people not notice, or even care, about those little details? It's too bad because I really dig the fabric. If RgT had made this shirt up in a Western i'd seriously consider buying it. |
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Post by bentin on May 4, 2017 9:36:27 GMT -6
RgT is currently peddling a $255 shirt that is lacking gussets and has suspect alignment. I know we're flogging a dead horse here but I wonder if the misaligned placket on RgT's new work shirt was intentional? I blame this forum for making me a bit OCD, but I honestly wonder how this shirt made it out of development. Even more perplexing, how is it that consumers would even find it exceptable when you consider the cost? Is it blind loyalty to the brand or do people not notice, or even care, about those little details? It's too bad because I really dig the fabric. If RgT had made this shirt up in a Western i'd seriously consider buying it. Funny, I'd buy both the flannel and Sashiko as a Western. But they'd have to not akew the placket. |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 9:40:24 GMT -6
I'd buy the sashiko as a western too but Rgt already did that a couple of yrs ago and im guessing they wont do it again
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 9:40:26 GMT -6
I'd buy the sashiko as a western too but Rgt already did that a couple of yrs ago and im guessing they wont do it again
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Post by nate001 on May 4, 2017 9:47:06 GMT -6
I know we're flogging a dead horse here but I wonder if the misaligned placket on RgT's new work shirt was intentional? I blame this forum for making me a bit OCD, but I honestly wonder how this shirt made it out of development. Even more perplexing, how is it that consumers would even find it exceptable when you consider the cost? Is it blind loyalty to the brand or do people not notice, or even care, about those little details? It's too bad because I really dig the fabric. If RgT had made this shirt up in a Western i'd seriously consider buying it. Funny, I'd buy both the flannel and Sashiko as a Western. But they'd have to not akew the placket. I've seen plenty of shirts with the placket turned 90 degrees to the rest of the shirt. I even own one, but its a gingham. I don't think the placket thing is super weird, just a little weird, but I do think a smaller pattern, like a gingham, is visually less distracting. That said, I will not buy this shirt. RgT has some hard core fan boys that similar brands (LF NYC, freenote, etc.) don't seem to have, at least in my world view. Not sure why exactly, but they do seem to have a particular aesthetic that separates them from the rest of the pack (more modern/scandinavian?). I dunno. I have a supply jacket from them that I really like and a pair of safari trousers that are less successful. I'd probably buy more from them, but I'm set on jeans, chinos and work shirts for the time being. EDIT: Oh man, I just realized this is a TS thread, not RgT. This thing is completely derailed. |
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New Drops
May 4, 2017 9:48:53 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bentin on May 4, 2017 9:48:53 GMT -6
I'd buy the sashiko as a western too but Rgt already did that a couple of yrs ago and im guessing they wont do it again They are doing the Western in their ISC this fall, I'll probably grab that. |
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Post by nate001 on May 4, 2017 9:54:18 GMT -6
Much like an article I saw yesterday about a shortage of auto mechanics, this seems like the real hurdle of bringing jobs back to America. We're all a bunch of over educated service industry folks now, not skilled physical laborers. Like Carroll Shelby resorting to building his last cars in a NV prison, maybe we just need to look at all of our available labor pools. i've read similar articles about the blue collar industry. Jobs like plumbing or even truck drivers are experiencing labor shortages. I'm actually considering obtaining a commercial drivers license because those guys make really good money. If you have a cdl and are an owner/operator you can earn upwards of $250k per year. Granted, the cost of having your own big rig is probably through the roof and some of these drivers are transporting hazardous materials which warrant the high pay. But if you're a route driver you can easily make a starting salary of $50k to $75k per year. My 4 yr degree is worthless Yeah, I think I've posted here before about how it's impossible to get a plumber to show up at your house. These trade jobs seem to be the way out of the middle class economic doldrums we are currently in. Again, I don't think a plumber, or electrician will ever be "wealthy", but I do think you could reasonably support a family, save for retirement and own a home. What are the obstacles for folks to get these jobs? How does the government or the economy generally incentivize someone to go into a trade? C'mon Betsy DeVos, let's figure this one out! |
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Post by kkozel on May 4, 2017 9:56:57 GMT -6
Agreed. Small craftsmen are having an impact. I also like the guy at One Star Leather. Nice belts for the money. There are lots of small, quality purveyors, but I think what we're lacking is the large capacity sew shops that used to be prevelant. Much like an article I saw yesterday about a shortage of auto mechanics, this seems like the real hurdle of bringing jobs back to America. We're all a bunch of over educated service industry folks now, not skilled physical laborers. Like Carroll Shelby resorting to building his last cars in a NV prison, maybe we just need to look at all of our available labor pools. Who's pay extra for a shirt sewn by OJ? I'd also like to point out that I categorically avoid Gustin's MiUSA shirts because they're poorly cut and poorly made. So that's not a win for MiUSA. TS probably suffers from more returns when they try to source US sewers to make a patterned shirt. RgT is currently peddling a $255 shirt that is lacking gussets and has suspect alignment. I don't fault TS for using Portugal for patterned shirts, but I'm still annoyed that they don't leave their solid shirts and those named California in the hands of American sewers. And there's just no excuse for China. If you can't strike a deal with Westcomb, RAB or Mission, just don't make the jacket. Really agree with this sentiment, especially from TS. Why I started with them was the MiUSA, and I like their style ducks. I really missed that it was Made in China - mainly cause I didn't even open that product page for that jacket. I mean that Albion is Made in California - swear all their other jackets are at least outside china. |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 10:04:23 GMT -6
Yeah, I think I've posted here before about how it's impossible to get a plumber to show up at your house. These trade jobs seem to be the way out of the middle class economic doldrums we are currently in. Again, I don't think a plumber, or electrician will ever be "wealthy", but I do think you could reasonably support a family, save for retirement and own a home. What are the obstacles for folks to get these jobs? How does the government or the economy generally incentivize someone to go into a trade? C'mon Betsy DeVos, let's figure this one out! the obstacles are bound to be financial. To get a plumbing license you'd have to go to a trade school for 2 yrs, but most people don't have the coin or maybe even the time to start over. The police force here in MN sounds like they're having a shortage as well. They've actually started a pilot program a couple of months ago to hire police trainees regardless of experience...you just need a degree. |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 4, 2017 10:48:05 GMT -6
Funny, I'd buy both the flannel and Sashiko as a Western. But they'd have to not akew the placket. I've seen plenty of shirts with the placket turned 90 degrees to the rest of the shirt. I even own one, but its a gingham. I don't think the placket thing is super weird, just a little weird, but I do think a smaller pattern, like a gingham, is visually less distracting. That said, I will not buy this shirt. RgT has some hard core fan boys that similar brands (LF NYC, freenote, etc.) don't seem to have, at least in my world view. Not sure why exactly, but they do seem to have a particular aesthetic that separates them from the rest of the pack (more modern/scandinavian?). I dunno. I have a supply jacket from them that I really like and a pair of safari trousers that are less successful. I'd probably buy more from them, but I'm set on jeans, chinos and work shirts for the time being. EDIT: Oh man, I just realized this is a TS thread, not RgT. This thing is completely derailed. Every brand has their fans. I see guys on IG that are dressed head to toe with whatever brand. I prefer mixing things up but then again, I have a mixed wardrobe to begin with. Nothing wrong with brand love |
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Post by stinky on May 4, 2017 11:52:56 GMT -6
I would advise folks to share your displeasure with TS/MiC by emailing the founders: founders@taylorstitch.com I'll show my displeasure by not supporting their company. I have a feeling that if I were to email them about it they'd drum up some mass email response along the lines of, "we're sorry to hear you're unsatisfied with our company. We're working hard to improve our logistical chain, blah, blah, blah." Talk about biting the hand that feeds you Yeah, that's not what happened at all. Some people care about their company and its perception in the market, and others send out canned responses. |
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Post by ncbluegrass on May 5, 2017 11:48:27 GMT -6
Yeah, I think I've posted here before about how it's impossible to get a plumber to show up at your house. These trade jobs seem to be the way out of the middle class economic doldrums we are currently in. Again, I don't think a plumber, or electrician will ever be "wealthy", but I do think you could reasonably support a family, save for retirement and own a home. What are the obstacles for folks to get these jobs? How does the government or the economy generally incentivize someone to go into a trade? C'mon Betsy DeVos, let's figure this one out! the obstacles are bound to be financial. To get a plumbing license you'd have to go to a trade school for 2 yrs, but most people don't have the coin or maybe even the time to start over. The police force here in MN sounds like they're having a shortage as well. They've actually started a pilot program a couple of months ago to hire police trainees regardless of experience...you just need a degree. the obstacles are mostly socioeconomic. trade jobs are generally looked down upon, especially plumbers, electricians, masons, etc. Many public school systems no longer offer vocational programs as part of the High School curriculum. It's beaten into children from early on that you have to go to college and get a 4-year degree and having to work with your hands means that you haven't succeeded. you don't necessarily have to have a plumbing or electrical license to earn a good living and support a family. I see it every day. My top foreman and superintendents make good money, are fully insured, have a company vehicle, and are able to work and earn overtime if they want it. Most of these guys are married with multiple children. Trade work is hard work for sure and you're exposed to the elements but I've met people in field turning wrenches that are far more knowledgeable than the college graduate sitting in the office trailer pushing out schedules and paperwork. But yes, studying for a license and taking the tests costs time and money and it's necessary if you want to get out of the field and behind a desk. But i've also met people with a license that have no clue how to use the code book or solve install problems in the field. So a license itself is not the be-all end-all. Labor in my industry is definitely hard to come by. We're lucky to have the good quality guys in the field that we do. But they aren't getting any younger and that new generation appears to be non-existent at the moment. |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 5, 2017 12:07:04 GMT -6
the obstacles are mostly socioeconomic. trade jobs are generally looked down upon, especially plumbers, electricians, masons, etc. Many public school systems no longer offer vocational programs as part of the High School curriculum. It's beaten into children from early on that you have to go to college and get a 4-year degree and having to work with your hands means that you haven't succeeded. you don't necessarily have to have a plumbing or electrical license to earn a good living and support a family. I see it every day. My top foreman and superintendents make good money, are fully insured, have a company vehicle, and are able to work and earn overtime if they want it. Most of these guys are married with multiple children. Trade work is hard work for sure and you're exposed to the elements but I've met people in field turning wrenches that are far more knowledgeable than the college graduate sitting in the office trailer pushing out schedules and paperwork. But yes, studying for a license and taking the tests costs time and money and it's necessary if you want to get out of the field and behind a desk. But i've also met people with a license that have no clue how to use the code book or solve install problems in the field. So a license itself is not the be-all end-all. Labor in my industry is definitely hard to come by. We're lucky to have the good quality guys in the field that we do. But they aren't getting any younger and that new generation appears to be non-existent at the moment.
agreed. I was fed the same line of BS when I was in college, namely, if you work hard and get your degree then you'll be successful. Of course, this probably only applies to those that have degrees in medicine or engineering. Most other degrees are useless. I was talking to a truck driver a couple of weeks ago and he told me he earned about $70k last year. He also said that the turnover rate was high and that it's the younger guys who don't want to do the work, so I think this adds credence to your statement about labor from younger generations being non-existent. |
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Post by nate001 on May 5, 2017 12:48:51 GMT -6
the obstacles are mostly socioeconomic. trade jobs are generally looked down upon, especially plumbers, electricians, masons, etc. Many public school systems no longer offer vocational programs as part of the High School curriculum. It's beaten into children from early on that you have to go to college and get a 4-year degree and having to work with your hands means that you haven't succeeded. you don't necessarily have to have a plumbing or electrical license to earn a good living and support a family. I see it every day. My top foreman and superintendents make good money, are fully insured, have a company vehicle, and are able to work and earn overtime if they want it. Most of these guys are married with multiple children. Trade work is hard work for sure and you're exposed to the elements but I've met people in field turning wrenches that are far more knowledgeable than the college graduate sitting in the office trailer pushing out schedules and paperwork. But yes, studying for a license and taking the tests costs time and money and it's necessary if you want to get out of the field and behind a desk. But i've also met people with a license that have no clue how to use the code book or solve install problems in the field. So a license itself is not the be-all end-all. Labor in my industry is definitely hard to come by. We're lucky to have the good quality guys in the field that we do. But they aren't getting any younger and that new generation appears to be non-existent at the moment.
agreed. I was fed the same line of BS when I was in college, namely, if you work hard and get your degree then you'll be successful. Of course, this probably only applies to those that have degrees in medicine or engineering. Most other degrees are useless. I was talking to a truck driver a couple of weeks ago and he told me he earned about $70k last year. He also said that the turnover rate was high and that it's the younger guys who don't want to do the work, so I think this adds credence to your statement about labor from younger generations being non-existent. I agree with the above, but would just suggest being careful with the whole "all young people are lazy" thing. From the beginning of time, this has been said about younger generations. Frequently followed by "...and get off my lawn!" |
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Post by gaseousclay on May 5, 2017 13:05:32 GMT -6
agreed. I was fed the same line of BS when I was in college, namely, if you work hard and get your degree then you'll be successful. Of course, this probably only applies to those that have degrees in medicine or engineering. Most other degrees are useless. I was talking to a truck driver a couple of weeks ago and he told me he earned about $70k last year. He also said that the turnover rate was high and that it's the younger guys who don't want to do the work, so I think this adds credence to your statement about labor from younger generations being non-existent. I agree with the above, but would just suggest being careful with the whole "all young people are lazy" thing. From the beginning of time, this has been said about younger generations. Frequently followed by "...and get off my lawn!" true enough. I know a guy close to my age (mid-40's) and he's lazier than sh*t. Likewise, I know a 21 yo who is reliable and works hard. |
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Post by northcoast on May 9, 2017 19:23:31 GMT -6
TS Reps response cut and pasted from SF. - NC
Hey All,
@th3buhbuh feel free to DM with any of the issues you've discussed with Mike.
Regarding China: We set out to make the best jacket we could. This is the same reason we took our suiting and dress shirts to Portugal, and our Chino's to Spain. Simply put, the manufacturing in those respective areas is, in our opinion, superior to stateside manufacturing.
Yes, Made in China carries a stigma, but like many things in life there are two sides to the story. There is certainly bad manufacturing in China, but thankfully we are not forced to work with them. The factories that we have looked at have built full closed loop systems where they purify and recycle their own water, they feed all their workers (sometimes provide clothing and housing as well) and all adhere to fair labor standards. We utilize extensive compliance audits (usually paid for by much larger brands like Patagonia) to make sure of these things.
If anyone has any follow up or would like to discuss in detail feel free to DM me and we can chat as much as you'd like.
Until next time!
- Steve
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New Drops
May 9, 2017 19:35:54 GMT -6
via mobile
Post by bentin on May 9, 2017 19:35:54 GMT -6
Nice knowing you TS. But that's some poop.
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Post by northcoast on May 9, 2017 20:09:56 GMT -6
Nice knowing you TS. But that's some poop. But they .........set it out. I have a buddy, and he liked to joke with the ladies, 'you gonna set it out for me?'. awww yeahhh B that's all you TS is settin it out for ya! /getchya sum! |
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