Order Update Thread

[brentkuz]

Maybe it's just me and my assumption but I feel lawless needed capital. Hire workers, purchases these ancient sewing machines, purchase raw materials, shop space, new SF factory. Of course I am not sure on how the capital got to lawless in the first place I'm fairly confident it's us. These 50% off sales must drum up a ton of quick cash. Look at the order numbers I was 142 on 11/4/15 by a few days after they were in the 1000's. Cheap capital instead of going to a bank or a venture capitalist (I love wedding crashers). They get investments and end up producing the product not at a loss.

[oatwilly]

Feb 15, 2015 10:39:36 GMT -6 quick said:

Think maybe they are short on cash, that's why they are offering 50% off?

I can't think of why a business would offer more sales if they are 10 weeks behind schedule.

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out what's happening...they initially did the extended 50% off sale because they needed an infusion of cash. Then many (most?) people people got impatient with the delays and cancelled or had their CC company reverse the charges, thus LD has been forced to give most of the $ cash infusion back, and started offering more 50% sales to try and recoup the lost $$. None of this is a good sign obviously, especially when Sal posted about refunds being delayed temporarily. Ummm...uh oh 

What's not making sense to me though, is why cancellations en masse hasn't translated to any of us getting our orders faster. One of my orders is in the new site low 200's range, and I'm still waiting. How long ago was it that Sal said new site orders 1-300 were starting production? Anyway, it seems actual production at some point may have slowed to a crawl or ground to a halt.   


  

[Deleted]

now that we are talking about cash and numbers.  I am still a Lawless fan and am rooting for them, but understand all of your concerns etc etc...and hope it all works out, but only time will tell. Either way, I have always had a problem with their math on the kickstarter
"the math:
20k - 25 new machines ($800 ea.)
40k - 38 new machines ($800 ea.) + 1 new cutting table ($6,000 ea.) + 2 new cutters ($1,500ea.)
80k - 62 new machines ($800 ea.) + 2 new cutting tables ($6,000 ea.) + 2 new cutters ($1,500 ea.) + pattern development & grading software ($15,000)
100k - 100 new sewing machines ($800 ea.) + 2 new cutting tables ($6,000 ea.) + 2 new cutters ($1,500 ea.) + pattern development & grading software ($15,000)
The total goal of 200 new employees is achieved at the 100k mark. 100 new sewing machines = 200 new employees (@ 2 work shifts 100 + 100 = 200) "

This worried me when I backed the project, but...YOLO! YOOOOOLOOOOOO!
Either way, you see what is missing? They are just using straight numbers. At $20K they can get get 25 machines at $800 each.
There is no cost of labor and materials and shipping etc in this equation. The rest are the same.  (UPDATE!  I just looked at it again, their math is all wrong.  100K...100 machines at $800...$80K  Plus 12K for tables.  Now at 92K.  then cutters at 3K and 15K software.  Off by 10K...doh!  I am not going through all of them)
Again, I like my kickstarter jeans (the one pair I got, they are resolving the other pair) and they might be my current favorite pair (I just washed them! Oooh! I would say that would stave off crotch blowout, but my constant boners for jeans manufacturers is the main reason for my crotch blowouts), but that math is whack.

Here's to hoping we are all sitting around the campfire next fall, eating smores and wearing lawless denim onesies and laughing about all of this.

[davelewis]

Feb 15, 2015 11:12:42 GMT -6 Whiskey Mercenary said:

I'm not investing. I purchased a product with a timeline for completion. That timeline has been blown out of the water. If they want to play the small business card, they need to get their act together and communicate openly.

When I decided to purchase from LD, I never considered it an investment, but more of a speculation.  It would be interesting to see the "numbers", such as revenue growth, profits, and rate they are burning through the cash they receive for new orders.  Being a private company, they don't have to disclose this, but at this point another 50% off won't get me to purchase anything else.  

The shirts I have received are the bomb, but I see wait times growing, and not getting better, so like the shark tank folks like to say, I'm out. 

[exophobe]

Feb 15, 2015 11:39:53 GMT -6 oatwilly said:

Feb 15, 2015 10:39:36 GMT -6 quick said:

Think maybe they are short on cash, that's why they are offering 50% off?

I can't think of why a business would offer more sales if they are 10 weeks behind schedule.

I don't think it takes a genius to figure out what's happening...they initially did the extended 50% off sale because they needed an infusion of cash. Then many (most?) people people got impatient with the delays and cancelled or had their CC company reverse the charges, thus LD has been forced to give most of the $ cash infusion back, and started offering more 50% sales to try and recoup the lost $$. None of this is a good sign obviously, especially when Sal posted about refunds being delayed temporarily. Ummm...uh oh 

What's not making sense to me though, is why cancellations en masse hasn't translated to any of us getting our orders faster. One of my orders is in the new site low 200's range, and I'm still waiting. How long ago was it that Sal said new site orders 1-300 were starting production? Anyway, it seems actual production at some point may have slowed to a crawl or ground to a halt.   


  

They said they had to delay refunds because people wer demanding refunds while they were reversing the charges with their banks. Order 116 still pending, cut into pieces about six weeks or so ago, pending sewing. If they send out updates when they go into sewing, I guess this still must be a few weeks out. On the fifth of March it hits four months. If they're being worked by order of existence, by indications this would mean they have something like 300-400 orders cut awaiting sewing as of their "orders in the 400s have started production" updates. I think my second order is somewhere around 1100, hopefully they ship the first one before starting the second so I can validate sizing.

[julian]

Feb 15, 2015 12:31:35 GMT -6 davelewis said:

but at this point another 50% off won't get me to purchase anything else.  

They could send me a 'Hey, buy any pair of jeans for $10!' code and I - genuinely - wouldn't bother. I'm in the UK, so the postage adds c.$25 to the end price and I already have two pairs bought and paid for and with no idea when they'll arrive, if they'll fit or if the cut will work for me.

Sal has been as helpful as he can and has responded to the two or three communications I've sent him... but being helpful and an all-round nice guy doesn't actually mean the jeans arrive on time. 8-10 weeks became 12-14 weeks and tomorrow hits week 15 for my first order. As it takes at least a week for jeans to arrive (once shipped) from the US, the very earliest I could possibly receive them would be week 16. The optimist in me thinks it'll be more like week 20. The realist fears week 25.

And that's for my first pair (#291). I also ordered a second pair just two days later which has an order number of 746. I seriously don't expect to see them until May or June.

That'll potentially means a lead time of 7 or 8 months for a pair of jeans. That's not just annoying, it's almost surreally ridiculous. It's getting on for the length of time it takes to create and give birth to a human baby FFS.

As others have said, the KS/up front payment model is basically a way of getting hold of interest free loans. In much the same way as some people who take out loans and don't quite understand that they've actually go to repay them, I'm starting to wonder if the KS model encourages some companies to think they've made the big time and don't actually need to worry too much about supplying the products that have already been paid for.

[jamesr]

I feel exactly the same julian. My first order is in the low-100s. Email in December said they were moving into production. Since? Nothing.

Like you, I'm not in the US so I paid $25 for postage and you can add another week from the time they ship. We're likely getting in the region of 20 weeks from time of order.

On top of that to continue to see 50% off deals? What!? Man, I don't know.

Even if I get my jeans tomorrow, do I really want to place another order and wait ~5 months?

What this has taught me is the KS model is not really for me any more.

[wdw]

It bothers me that they send out these virtually meaningless emails about going into cutting, as a sop to people to make them think that something's actually happening, but from what people say here things can languish for months in cutting before even getting a sniff of a sewing machine.

Like you say, Julian, we could all be breeding our own little pattern cutters and seamstresses in the time it's taking to get a bit of cotton stuck together. That might actually be the only way we can get the wait time down, by breeding a master race of nifty-fingered midgets to move to Phoenix and man the machines.

[julian]

It is galling to receive emails detailing new product range launches that they remind us we helped to finance. I wonder if everyone ordering these items is aware they might not receive them until after summer's been and gone?

[Deleted]

I shipped my bags back for refund, and he said they received them, and that he sent the request to Roman and Laura. I guess that aspect of CS he has no control over. It's only been 5 days since the refund request, so no big deal for now.

Old website order still hasn't hit production yet.

ORDER #426
Order Date: 3rd Nov 2014

This order is marked as Awaiting Fulfillment

Your Order Contains:
1 x Denim & Horween Leather Jacket
(Jacket Style: Denim & Horween Leather Jacket, Size: X-Small, Button: Black Copper, Thread Color: Brown, Pocket Liner: Brown Canvas)

[marauder]

At this pace, I'll be lucky if my order of 18.5 oz Kuroki arrives before next Christmas. I'm getting out of the KS - back it, pay now and forget about it game. 4 weeks is the maximum I'm willing to wait. My G orders were scheduled to ship 2 weeks ago and nothing happened but, this is my last batch. I'm done for good.

I'm thinking it'll be faster to just buy a single needle lockstitch machine, make your own pattern, learn how to sew and make the jeans myself.

[oatwilly]

Feb 15, 2015 13:52:32 GMT -6 julian said:

Feb 15, 2015 12:31:35 GMT -6 davelewis said:

 I'm starting to wonder if the KS model encourages some companies to think they've made the big time and don't actually need to worry too much about supplying the products that have already been paid for.

receiving bucket loads of CA$H = yay, fun!

actually filling orders = bummer dude

[easy79]

This is very dissapointing to hear. Normally I'm an extremely patient person, and usually I don't mind waiting especially for a quality product or service. Plus I order so much crap from the net and eBay, I always have stuff coming in that I forgot I had ordered. But, guess who ordered jeans to give as a present for the girlfriend for Christmas? And guess what order number this dumb guy has...1400. Guess who has been hearing "when are my jeans coming?, why is it taking so long?, didn't you order them in November"? Sigh*

[dnugget]

First time poster, but I've been following this thread and the StyleForum thread from before I made my first purchase (in the #200s, November 3rd). It's really irritating not having any updates - I haven't received any production updates, and my order is still listed as Awaiting Fulfillment.

I'm really considering cancelling my order, but IMO, it's difficult to find other jeans with the amount of customization (and with some of these fabrics at low prices) that Lawless has. I think I'm done with this KS-model after this (unless I cancel it any sooner).

[Winterland]

welcome dnugget
"it's difficult to find other jeans with the amount of customization (and with some of these fabrics at low prices) that Lawless has."

This is what keeps us ordering and patiently waiting. Note, be patient all.

[oatwilly]

Like a lot of us have said before, I didn't need these items badly at the time of the order, but I do NEED them. Each item will fill some niche or need within my wardrobe. Yes, I can make do with things I already have for now. But what really sucks is when I see another item from another maker that would fill that niche and I have to pass because I already have such and such coming from LD. I'm probably the most patient person here, but at some point I am going to have to say enough is enough. I really hope it doesn't come to that and I get my goods.

[DigDug]

So what is time waiting worth?
What I mean is, If Gustin is selling WS for $120+ (And waiting 2,3 months) and IH for $150+ (off Rakutan) and other suppliers for $125+
LD is selling them in the $50 - 75 range.
Is it worth saving half off+++ and buying for the next season (or next Fall)?

[quick]

If LD stated a 4-5 month lead time I'd be okay with it.

Just plan accordingly... place a order for October in April or May.

I would gladly wait 4-5 months with a guarantee delivery date for a 50% discount compared to G and IH.

[davelewis]

Guys, I had an old site order for 2 shirts that took between 16-17 weeks to arrive. I'm glad I waited it out, as I really like the shirts, and have a vest coming from the new site, ordered on Nov 3, order# 395, which is when the majority seemed to order, because of the sale. I wouldn't expect to get your stuff until sometime in March, as I don't get the feeling that they've got a handle on production yet.

I know if I receive my order a bit earlier than that, that tells me they are producing faster. If my stuff is even later than my old site order, then you can see where this is going. I just hope its moving in the right direction.

[Deleted]

LOL! My order from another company is now 7 months 3 days or 30 weeks and 5 days from the order date (kickstarter), etc and I only saw half of it which was messed up. Makes me wonder why people get so weird when I complain about that.
Yes, I know "change the record, rex."
Either way, I think it is worked out and they have said that they are going to start remaking the messed up pair and finally going to start on my earlier bird. Pictures and review will be posted when received. Onwards and upwards, brah.

The bad thing is, I can't just go to stores and buy jeans like these for anywhere near a reasonable price. Being in somewhat Japan is weird. Nothing is made to fit jerks like me. It is either super skinny with a tight crotch or big and baggy workwear. Ordering Japanese online might get weird with their slightly different fit. Even my uniqlo straight legs are loose in the waist, but tight in the crotch and thighs. Also, some of you might remember the time I bought some size 36 "workers" jeans. Made in Japan and kinda neat on sale for 4,000 yen. They were unbelievably huge (Pictured with a 35 gustin straight on top)

I bought two pairs just like this.  the brah asked me if I wanted to try them on, but I didn't understand why.  A 36 in Japan should fit me just fine, thank you very much!  Anyone know a bigger denimhead that likes to swim in their jeans, holla at your boy!

So until I realize that I have enough jeans and stop this madness, I gotta pick one of these companies and currently, Lawless is the best...or least worst.

[Deleted]

@rex you have a way with words, Brah! I don't know if it's because you use so many or what, but the right ones are always somewhere in your epic posts lol

[Deleted]

Feb 15, 2015 11:39:07 GMT -6 seth said:

When they missed the time-to-completion estimate of 8-10 weeks, they did send me an email saying 12-14 weeks was their updated estimate. That was open communication about things. Today, my account says "awaiting fulfillment" 13 weeks after the order. I wonder if they'll miss the time-to-completion estimate twice and exceed 14 weeks. I'm up in the air about the whole situation.     

I have no doubt that it will exceed 14 weeks.

Once again guys, I had an old site order than took 16 weeks. I was told it was cut and waiting to be sewn 4 weeks after I placed an order. 

My new site order, 697, is still 'awaiting fulfillment.' It is now week 15 and it has not been cut yet. IMO it'll take 30weeks.

[edol]

Just got an email from Lawless saying "Your garments are now in the Sewing Room.", new site order number 281. Let's see when i will get these.

[Deleted]

My KS wait continues. I call them every two weeks. Everyone at LD is nice on the phone and this isn't an angry rant. Both pairs are always "shipping next week". They were in cutting for two months based on what I've been told. I think they use the ancient Japanese method of "jeans by 1000 cuts".

At this point, the order is a punchline over beers with my GF. I've warned her that if the fabled waxed Turkish skinnys do show up that she'll be required to post pics. I sense her modesty is safe for the foreseeable future.

@rex, where'd youget those JNCOS brahbro?

[jray]

Stevekas - I had to read your post a few times because at first I was worried the posted pics of the fabled waxed turkish skinnies were for you!